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tope1983

General Gameplay Issues

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When I followed the impressive work & progress of your mod, I finally came up to the question this topic is titled: "How will the final gameplay of BTTF-HV look like?"

I'm asking because the current releases - which I think are very promising - give the player the feeling of a new genre that is going to be established.

Despite all the well known types of games (casual, adventure, strategy, action, shooter...) BTTF-HV not only expands the genre of "sandbox-games" but literally produces a genre that could be called "timebox" or even better "timeline-games".

This is what the current releases are offering you: not only walking around and doing anything you like as in the common sandbox games but also walking around in time plus interacting with time (when you send the Delorean a few minutes to the future)!

As already discussed in other topics a rather often asked question is answered with a clear NO: Could you timetravel to the past and interact with the actions you have done before?

So how will the the final BTTF-HV will work?

What are you intentions this mod is going to be played?

Keeping up with the impressive ability of typing in ANY time you want in the TC and travel there, or is it (what I think is more realistically) mission based, that you follow a linear storyline which doesn't allow you the freedom of travelling WHENever you want to?

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Let me explain it this way:

In many games you have to pass missions in order to unlock features or new locations - we'll do it similar.

We'll code missions that (let you) reenact the movies and per mission that you pass, you'll get something new. When you start the game for example, you neither will be able to build a timemachine, nor you can find the timetrain, but you can run around, like in the regular GTA game.

Once you finished the first movie, you'll be able to steal the plutonium from the Libyans in 1985 to travel around with the BTTF1 version.

This then goes on through the game...

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Thanks for the fast answer.

So the mod follows more or less the storyline of the 3 movies and mainly contains missions you "enter" to complete the plot (like in a typical sandbox-game). Beside that the current progress of the whole story defines, what you can do when not playing a mission (e.g.: being in 1955 for the 1st time you can explore Hill Valley anno 1955, looking for side-missions BUT you can NOT time travel with the Delorean, as you have no plutonium).

So in general I assume the mod is going to be more like a common sandbox game, just the setting is Hill Valley and the BTTF-universe. It is (based on technical issues) not going to be a timeline-game.

Is that rather correct?

Edited by tope1983

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... I assume the mod is going to be more like a common sandbox game, just the setting is Hill Valley and the BTTF-universe. It is (based on technical issues) not going to be a timeline-game.

Is that rather correct?

That would be correct. You'd (mostly) pick up the role of Marty and his actions in the entire trilogy and, because Doc has the time machines, you would not have [free] access to them just until you finish the whole canon story. As any sandbox-free-roam game, your actions on the storyline will affect the enviroment you're on.

Of course, after the whole story is finished, the player would most likely have free access to the time machines and the game would include certain elements for you to be able to change the Present or the Future on some degree.

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Okay, I think I got the point now.

Why I wanted to know that was mainly because of the former releases of the mod. The playable releases put the feeling in my mind, that it could be possible to create a timeline-game out of Vice City.

Typing in the TC any time you want and GO there (then) or visiting any point in the timeline, manipulate it and look how it affects future events was a very inviting thought.

BUT as a mather of technical limitations which the GTA:VC engine obviously provides, it does NOT mean that this thoughts should be thrown away.

In other words: the mission designers can work on several missions which split the story. There has not to be every time only ONE way to complete a mission, at least there could be 2 possible solutions. That could mean, that the storyline will go on in a different way and compared to the whole BTTF:HV-project, maybe there will be several endings.

This would be a code-based gameplay feature but it gives the player the feeling, that he CAN manipulate happenings or history and would come up with the main aspect, the movies showed us.

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...BUT as a mather of technical limitations which the GTA:VC engine obviously provides, it does NOT mean that this thoughts should be thrown away.

In other words: the mission designers can work on several missions which split the story. There has not to be every time only ONE way to complete a mission, at least there could be 2 possible solutions. That could mean, that the storyline will go on in a different way and compared to the whole BTTF:HV-project, maybe there will be several endings...

These suggestions are really good and could really improve the gaming experience (although, even if the mission has several ways of finishing, the outcome would be the same), the only setback I see is the restrictions the game engine has; not only to what you can do, but also the resources you're allowed to use.

You probably know that the DMC-13, KITT, Tutorial and Ride mission had to get the axe due to code restructuration and SCM file size, because the code needed for these features was in a particular section (MAIN, the code of the features used for free-roam functions) that has a predefined size that we currently don't know how to change; well, the same happens to missions. Missions go in a part of the file that is quite empty now, but can't be used for other thing that's not a mission. Even the whole file has a predefined max size.

The main goal of the mod's storyline is to mimic the Trilogy as accurate as possible, but we won't know if it'll fit in the file until we're ready to code it in and until we have all the necesary elements. However, if the storyline fits and there's enough room, I don't see why it can't be done, if the team's mission writers and coders agree. The mod will probably have more releases after v1.0.

Of course, we're still quite some time away to know, so we're not worrying about it now :P , we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

Maybe BACKINTIME, Blue or Mini-Me should give their oppinions on the topic.

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I had always assumed that once the hardware was more commonplace, HV would probably be moved to a newer GTA anyways (assuming of course that everything is possible and we have the proper resources to do so). I mean, v 1.0 be in VC, but if there is a later ver, then it would definitely have to be in SA or 4...

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BTTF-HV not only expands the genre of "sandbox-games" but literally produces a genre that could be called "timebox" or even better "timeline-games".

its called a timeline based strategy game -_-

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this guy is cool! ;)

he is very well spoken.............i mean written! :D

sorry for my english but my mother tongue is german.

i don't know, if there already exists the term "timeline-game", like "first-person-shooter" or "action-adventure" or "sandbox-game".

i just thought it would describe the content or intention of the game very well.

@ ashley+

what do you mean with timeline-strategy game?

which elements of strategy are going to be implemented into BTTF-HV?

@ Ziero

personally i think this could be one of the biggest mistakes the mod team can make. BTTF-HV has been developed for the VC game engine and the team made so much experience and progress. the time you need to understand how a different engine works would mean to start nearly from the very beginning.

so please try to stay at ONE engine.

i knew so many other mods which always started with a game, then there was a sequel released (better graphics more options etc.) and modders left the initious engine to use the newer one and during the following months and years there has been released the sequel of the sequel. so there was a newer engine again and everything started from the scratch again. in fact, a playable version was never brought to life.

i don't want that to happen to bttf-hv. this mod is too promising and too advanced.

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timeshift uses a in my POV a totally different aspect concerning time manipulation.

you can slow time down, stop it or rewind it (for some seconds).

the TM in BTTF let you move SUDDENLY onwards or backwards in time (without any slow-mo or rewinding): it is a sudden "jump"

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Hmm, a second English-fluent German (the first being Mini-Me).

personally i think this could be one of the biggest mistakes the mod team can make. BTTF-HV has been developed for the VC game engine and the team made so much experience and progress. the time you need to understand how a different engine works would mean to start nearly from the very beginning.

so please try to stay at ONE engine.

The thing is, like Carlos said, VC has these limitations that in a way make it hard to mod the game for BTTF. That's why we're having a San Andreas version. In fact, the team especially Blue finds SA easier to mod than VC. The SA version had faster progress than the VC mod did. However still we WILL have the original VC version.

And if we did move the entire mod to SA, we will still technically stay at one engine. SA has the same RenderWare GTA3-era engine, only better. :P

although i finished timeshift, i think i never was able to cause a "paradox"

The game avoids it by temporarily disabling the Rewind feature of the Beta Suit in certain parts of the game where (or when) paradoxes are possible to occur. However plot-wise a paradox did occur in TimeShift...well, almost. In the last part, *spoiler warning* the protagonist tried removing the mask and the suit alerted him that a paradox was imminent and transported him away as a result. I still can't explain why that happened.

timeshift uses a in my POV a totally different aspect concerning time manipulation.

you can slow time down, stop it or rewind it (for some seconds).

the TM in BTTF let you move SUDDENLY onwards or backwards in time (without any slow-mo or rewinding): it is a sudden "jump"

True. That's why I LOVE TimeShift. The game is a bit disappointing, though. The game had too many flaws. And speaking of fast-forwarding and rewinding, I should continue progress on my HG Wells Time Machine mod.

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The thing is, like Carlos said, VC has these limitations that in a way make it hard to mod the game for BTTF. That's why we're having a San Andreas version. In fact, the team especially Blue finds SA easier to mod than VC. The SA version had faster progress than the VC mod did. However still we WILL have the original VC version.

And if we did move the entire mod to SA, we will still technically stay at one engine. SA has the same RenderWare GTA3-era engine, only better. :P

so i guess it is more promising to continue with GTA-SA.

personally i have no problem with that at all, especially because the SA-engine was in my opinion the most advanced gameplay engine GTA games ever had (especially when you look at GTA IV, where a lot of that was missing).

we have a wider environment, already desert-like areas for the western setting, working trains, so many side-missions .......

what aspects of the mod, working in VC, are currently NOT working in SA?

Edited by tope1983

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yeah TimeShift is cool im also waitting to try this new game Singularity sopose to be a pretty cool time traviling game i need to get my ps3 fixed it dont want to play disc's anymore for some ression :mellow:

Edited by Doc-Holliday-

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Well my PS2 had a problem playing discs, so what I did was clean the lens with a q-tip & rubbing alcohol. Now it plays them perfectly.

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what aspects of the mod, working in VC, are currently NOT working in SA?

There's plenty since the mod is on hold (Blue has other stuff to do ) ;).

A problem that might be is that GTA:San Andrea's limit-editing tools aren't as stable as Vice City's, but this by far doesn't affect it in its current state.

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